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import-bot (20211) [Avatar] Offline
#1
[Originally posted by nollkoll]

Very good .NET book. I work mainly with a eCRM package. I come from the COM
camp. This package was originally all COM,MTS,MSMQ. A brilliant architecture
that was used as example architecture in the book 'COM+ and the Battle for
Middle Tier'. It was decided to switch this architecture to J2EE and EJB. This
ment I had to switch skills. I already knew Java and Servlets. Easy to
understand, easy to use, basically an elegant design. Now the original
architecture is coming alive again as a .NET architecture. I now know EJB can
stay with EJB but frankly it is a nightmare to use. I'm just amased so few
don't complain more ?! Go read EJB 101 at bad-managers.com Not to mention the
cost of getting performance. The appservers all behave slight different, and I
only need to know the 2 major. The programming model of EJB, the CMP - BMP,
Session, State or No state, persistande layer, transaction issues,
presentation layer...and the deployment and config files that req a degree in
XML. I do hope for a diverse world where MS is not the only player around, but
.NET seem to me to make my life doing CRM system integration alot easier. And
I have to say MS has a history of helping driving down complexity and cost.
Overall for the industry, maybe not at any particular site. From Architectur
point of view. I will slowly let my skills in EJB die out, unless I see
someone use at SUN use Occams razor. I like the .NET initiative...looking
good. Anyone agree ?
import-bot (20211) [Avatar] Offline
#2
Re: J2EE vs dotNot and CRM
[Originally posted by fgrimes]

Hi Henrik,

>> Very good .NET book.

Glad you enjoyed it.

>> This package was originally all COM,MTS,MSMQ. A brilliant
>> architecture...
>> It was decided to switch this architecture to J2EE and EJB.

So why the switch?

>> it is a nightmare to use...
>> Go read EJB 101 at bad-managers.com

I just read it, but there's something more curious than the EJB stuff. On the
home page it says

"We have evangelised Java at every company we have worked at.
However, EJB just presents so much that is wrong and messed
up that we felt we had to speak out."

I wonder how the writer now feels about having "evangelised" companies into
this stuff.

Fergal
import-bot (20211) [Avatar] Offline
#3
Re: J2EE vs dotNot and CRM
[Originally posted by nollkoll]


> Glad you enjoyed it.
Ohh I enjoyed it. Which is important. As I enjoyed Bitter Java. The good info
in a nice format. Joy to read.
>
> >> This package was originally all COM,MTS,MSMQ. A brilliant
> >> architecture...
> >> It was decided to switch this architecture to J2EE and EJB.
>
> So why the switch?
The Enterprise CRM market (Banks mostly) is a tough sell if Microsoft is
invloved. Many just say no to run MS, except on the client with Office. So an
J2EE/EJB version was needed. And it's a very good version. Using only
stateless Session beans leaving the bad in EJB out. Performance and scaling is
not an issue. However, when doing EAI and bespoke work, then the whole EJB
package is sometimes part of requirement.
>
> >> it is a nightmare to use...
> >> Go read EJB 101 at bad-managers.com
>
> I just read it, but there's something more curious than the EJB stuff. On the
> home page it says
>
> "We have evangelised Java at every company we have worked at.
> However, EJB just presents so much that is wrong and messed
> up that we felt we had to speak out."
>
> I wonder how the writer now feels about having "evangelised" companies into
> this stuff.

Well, I have to say EJB is a mess (.Net wins KO on clarity), but Java
otherwise is doing fine. I never liked the term 'evangelist'. Leaves little
room for discussion, don't u think. But if promoting Java (not only EJB) was
their mission - fine with me. They are honest enough to tell what's wrong with
what. Bitter Java shows important lessons too. There are many strange Java
projects going on at SUN, and ppl will want to try it out, but I feel that the
EJB solution will fall under it's own weight, unless it evolves into something
that ppl can get their head around. For enterprise developers .Net seem to me
to provide a clear view of something otherwise very very foggy. It leaves the
field clear of smaller obstacles to focus on the high level design. I will not
abandon Java (happy to leave EJB) and .Net is just another highly useful
architecture. Already got a small Manning collection. High standard stuff !
When will you not take on the Enterprise Programming .Net book challange ? You
know ..evolve the poker into an Entreprise gaming solution. Should be
possible... smilie

Cheers,
Henrik