ptmoy (18) [Avatar] Offline
#1
Haven't seen a comment from the author since December 2016. Be nice if he takes a look at the postings in this forum once in awhile, and maybe even answer a few question!
easante (97) [Avatar] Offline
#2
It's surprising that some authors don't respond to readers' questions/comments and the editors don't do that either. The purpose of the MEAP is defeated if authors and editors ignore reader feedback.
justin-c (36) [Avatar] Offline
#3
Not only comment-wise... there hasn't been any published progress on the book since December 2016... clearly the "Quickly" in the book title is not referring to the speed with which the author is writing it...
Marina Michaels (37) [Avatar] Offline
#4
Hi, I'm the Development Editor on React in Action (which isn't this book, but is related). React Quickly is in Manning's Production department, which means it is in the final stages of preparing it for publication. Thanks for your patience!
justin-c (36) [Avatar] Offline
#5
That's great! Thanks Marina smilie
54408 (4) [Avatar] Offline
#6
It would appear from the lack of updates and participation in this forum, that the author has moved on to other projects and that this book will be published with a lot of out of date material. I guess Manning has to recoup its expenses and provide something to the paying customers, but its not what I would have expected from Manning, they usually do good stuff. This smells of trying to save something from a failed project.
justin-c (36) [Avatar] Offline
#7
At 54408,

True... I kinda felt the same way - especially with the "React in Action" title which seems to cover similar ground. Not sure because I didn't read either of them. I ended up giving up on this one while it was being written and learnt enough of React (online material) to learn by experience. Now if I start reading this book it'll probably be outdated / topics I already know... (did give a half hearted short at the beginning chapters and ... the eye strain didn't justify it...).

Hopefully it'll be a good book to people who've never used React before ... despite some outdated tech being used (still I wonder what's the point of having both this title and "React in Action" ... it would have made more sense for the authors to collaborate).
Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
#8
Hey there,

This is Azat. The author of the book React Quickly.

For some reason I wasn't getting notifications. They were probably disabled.
Anyway, the book is ready and going to print in the next few weeks. I'm reviewing final proofs at the moment (Jun, 2017).

The book is almost a completely new book from the original MEAP of Dec 2015.
I re-wrote most of the book, updated to the latest React and ES6.

Here's a brief timeline:

1. Manuscript done - Dec/Jan 2015/2016
2. MEAP reviews - 3 out of 5 are okay but there's some negative feedback
3. React 15 happened and ES6 become ubiquitous
4. Manning and the author decided to rewrite the book
5. Manuscript of book's v2 is done ~ Nov 2016
6. More peer reviews - almost all positive except one "I don't like author's style"
7. Reviews and copy editing are done - Mar 2017
8. Print - who knows? Manning says maybe Jul, 2017

The book is not quick. It's 400+ pages. The writing and publishing wasn't quick either for better or worse.
Part of the Manning process is getting peer review feedback and it takes at least a month to do so.
Changing editors and reviewers also slowed down the book.
However, all on our team (which is like 7+ people since we had multiple reviewers and editors change), and myself included are proud of the end result.

There are two parts which are like two separate books.
Part 1 is React fundamentals.
Part 2 is React stack.
There are a lot of coding examples but also full projects!
Then you have quizzes, references, cheatsheets, videos, etc.
Book also teaches ES6 and JS fundamentals (where it's applicable), not just React .
The target of the book is a junior to mid-level front-end developer with 2-3 years of experience.

You can submit code issue to github repo directly. This will speed up the fix and encourage collaboration in one place.
https://github.com/azat-co/react-quickly/

All in all, the book turned out to be better than if it were released early. It's the best of my 13 other books. It's not perfect. You'll find so typos and eventually the book will be outdate since React is evolving... but the React stack is relatively more mature and with the part 1 focusing on fundamentals (which are highly won't change), I'm sure this book will be the best book on React and definitely most complete and comprehensive book on React!
justin-c (36) [Avatar] Offline
#9
Ok, thanks for the update Azat.

I was a bit disappointed last time I checked the book - and left some stupid comments. Sorry about that.

Has the question of "why 2 books on React" by Manning been asked somewhere on this forum (couldn't find it)? Could someone address that please?

Clearly, this book tries to be comprehensive about the topic (despite the "Quickly" in the title). I thought that was the differentiating factor... but they both seem to target the same audience.
Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
#10
justin-c wrote:Ok, thanks for the update Azat.

I was a bit disappointed last time I checked the book - and left some stupid comments. Sorry about that.

Has the question of "why 2 books on React" by Manning been asked somewhere on this forum (couldn't find it)? Could someone address that please?

Clearly, this book tries to be comprehensive about the topic (despite the "Quickly" in the title). I thought that was the differentiating factor... but they both seem to target the same audience.


@justin-c

No worries. Just to give you some context, I'm a follower of the book called Deep Work. In short, you can reach me on Twitter or Facebook but I reduce other channels.

As far as the book, I don't know all the details but from my understanding Manning has the the concept of XYZ in Action. My book idea was to make the book 100 pages hence the name "quickly"... after the first peer reviews and MEAP (which weren't good), I started adding more topics to make it more practical and the most comprehensive, complete and the best book on React. I had a good success with Practical Node which is a one-stop book on Node so I wanted to give readers of React Quickly as much value as possible for the price of one book. In the end they'll be getting lots of material!

You can compare TOCs for React Quickly and React in Action and judge for yourself. smilie Just a quick glance shows that React Quickly is more detailed and has more projects.

Ideally, you would get both of them to get two perspectives. That's what I do. I get 2-3 books or courses on a topic and immerse myself over a week or two. Also, I'm sure Marina can explain you more about the story and differences.

PS: I'm talking with Manning right now to do a video course on React Quickly to complement the book. Stay tuned!
54408 (4) [Avatar] Offline
#11
I am glad to see that my pessimism was misplaced. I am looking forward to reading the book, but like most of the other initial MEAP purchasers, I have taught myself enough reactjs on my own.to not need the book. Hopefully not.
Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
#12
54408 wrote:I am glad to see that my pessimism was misplaced. I am looking forward to reading the book, but like most of the other initial MEAP purchasers, I have taught myself enough reactjs on my own.to not need the book. Hopefully not.


Sure. React is not that hard to learn yourself. smilie
But I'm sure you'll find a few gems in the book and not just on React and React stack but also on JavaScript and good software engineering in general.
I wish the Manning process was faster. Tech books need to be published faster.
54408 (4) [Avatar] Offline
#13
I agree, the value in this book so far for me, has been learning how to put the pieces together to be effective without causing myself and my team issues later.
Marina Michaels (37) [Avatar] Offline
#14
justin-c wrote:

Has the question of "why 2 books on React" by Manning been asked somewhere on this forum (couldn't find it)? Could someone address that please?

Clearly, this book tries to be comprehensive about the topic (despite the "Quickly" in the title). I thought that was the differentiating factor... but they both seem to target the same audience.


Hi Justin, I'm the Development Editor on React in Action. Someone on the React in Action forum asked the same question about what's different between the two books. Here's a high-level overview of the three React books in development:

  • React in Action teaches React through one example carried throughout the book. It's for users new to React, though if you already know React, you might also gain some insights in seeing React applied to a single project.

  • React Quickly is for more advanced React users. It doesn't have a single project for the entire book like React in Action, but instead uses a lot of smaller examples to teach various aspects of React.

  • React Native in Action teaches how to use React Native to create mobile apps.

  • 370336 (1) [Avatar] Offline
    #15
    Azat Mardan wrote:PS: I'm talking with Manning right now to do a video course on React Quickly to complement the book. Stay tuned!



    That would be great!
    468060 (64) [Avatar] Offline
    #16
    Before I decide to buy a MEAP book I look at the writing style shown in the free chapters. In the case of this book, there are a lot of grammatical and punctuation mistakes and the writing is, frankly, sloppy.

    Why don't you at least clean up the one chapter which any potential buyer can look at? There are no on-line reviews, and we can't see the book in a bookshop. All that we have to go on is his sample chapter.
    Sironfoot (7) [Avatar] Offline
    #17
    468060 wrote:Before I decide to buy a MEAP book I look at the writing style shown in the free chapters. In the case of this book, there are a lot of grammatical and punctuation mistakes and the writing is, frankly, sloppy.

    Why don't you at least clean up the one chapter which any potential buyer can look at? There are no on-line reviews, and we can't see the book in a bookshop. All that we have to go on is his sample chapter.


    While the writing is sloppy it's because English isn't the author's first language, and I'm sure it'll get cleaned up in the final version. However, don't let that put you off, the material is easy enough to understand and concepts are conveyed well. I'm enjoying the MEAP version so far.
    468060 (64) [Avatar] Offline
    #18
    The problem isn't so much that the author's native language isn't English, but rather that the text is sloppily written and full of basic mistakes. I can't imagine writing a book, not bothering to check the text and then putting the first draft online as my 'advertisement' for the rest of the book. He obviously doesn't care. There is no attention to detail - which is essential in writing code.

    There are other weird issues which put me off, such as not using an up-to-date version of React Router and using an obscure alternative to Redux.

    If he takes the trouble to put another chapter online, reads through the text properly and deals with all the issues mentioned in this forum I would be more than willing to give the book another shot.
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #19
    468060 wrote:The problem isn't so much that the author's native language isn't English, but rather that the text is sloppily written and full of basic mistakes. I can't imagine writing a book, not bothering to check the text and then putting the first draft online as my 'advertisement' for the rest of the book. He obviously doesn't care. There is no attention to detail - which is essential in writing code.

    There are other weird issues which put me off, such as not using an up-to-date version of React Router and using an obscure alternative to Redux.

    If he takes the trouble to put another chapter online, reads through the text properly and deals with all the issues mentioned in this forum I would be more than willing to give the book another shot.


    1. You must be not aware how MEAP works.
    Let me explain you.
    MEAP which is Manning Early Access Program does not do any editing for its digital copies.
    I don't do any editing either when we send new versions to MEAP.
    Why do you expect a perfect prose from MEAP?

    The final book which went to print 3 days ago will have everything edited multiple times (copy editing, author review, tech editing, tech review, another copy editing, proof editing).

    2. What is the obscure alternative to Redux? You must be not up-to-date with the latest MEAP. Please download the latest MEAP which has Redux or wait for the final version which will be released in a few days.

    The bottom line is that you need to be aware of what you are buying. MEAP is not for everyone. MEAP is for people who can tolerate typos but need current versions and latest tech, for people who want to contribute to the book by providing their feedback.

    From you comments, you either didn't know about MEAP or prefer perfectly edited and grammatically sound prose... well, I wrote 14 books which were translated in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Russian and other languages. In addition to that, I read 200 non-fiction books myself in the last 3 years. And let me tell you, technical books are not supposed to be perfectly edited or grammatically sound.

    In tech, you need to move fast. That's why Manning has this great MEAP. If you want to read a perfect English, read Charles Dickens... because I'm sure even JavaScript The Good Part (which has been around 10+ years) will have a few typos.

    If you still want to learn React or enjoy the edited and beautifully typeset final version, then wait a few days for an email from Manning and get the final ecopy or order the print book!

    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #20
    468060 wrote:Before I decide to buy a MEAP book I look at the writing style shown in the free chapters. In the case of this book, there are a lot of grammatical and punctuation mistakes and the writing is, frankly, sloppy.

    Why don't you at least clean up the one chapter which any potential buyer can look at? There are no on-line reviews, and we can't see the book in a bookshop. All that we have to go on is his sample chapter.


    Because the "clean up" is not part of the MEAP. See my previous reply to another post below.

    Also, the book is not published so there would be no Amazon reviews, but there are plenty of peer review collected by Manning and some reviews on this forum and on GitHub (in issues).

    Some of the reviews from prominent tech authors and regular software engineers:

    “React Quickly is a one-stop shop for anyone who wants a guided introduction to React and the ecosystem of tools, concepts, and libraries around it. Follow Azat’s walkthroughs, work on the projects given, and you’ll soon understand React, Redux, GraphQL, Webpack, and Jest, as well as how to put them to work.”
    —Peter Cooper, editor of JavaScript Weekly

    “React Quickly teaches the reader the most valuable and buzz-worthy concepts in building modern web applications with React including GraphQL, Webpack, and server-side rendering. After reading React Quickly, you should feel confident in your ability to create a production-grade web application with React.”
    —Stan Bershadskiy, author of React Native Cookbook

    “Azat is one of the most authoritative voices in the programming space. This book goes far beyond the basics by deep diving into React’s foundation and architecture. It’s a must read for any developer!”
    —Erik Hanchett, author of Ember.js Cookbook

    “This book is simple to follow. It uses very basic language that makes you understand each concept step by step.”
    —Israel Morales, front-end developer and web designer at SavvyCard

    “Simple language with simple logical examples to get you up and running quickly is why this book truly justifies its title, React Quickly. This book covers all the major topics that any developer new to React needs in order to start writing apps using React. And the author’s sense of humor will keep you engaged until the end. I am thankful Azat took time to share his React journey with us.”
    —Suhas Deshpande, software engineer at Capital One

    “React Quickly is a great resource for coming up to speed with React. Very thorough and relevant. I’ll be using it as a reference for my next app.”
    —Nathan Bailey, full stack developer at SpringboardAuto.com

    “Azat is great at what he does—teaching people how to code. React Quickly contains fundamental knowledge as well as practical examples to get you started using React quickly.”
    —Shu Liu, IT consultant

    “Since being open sourced by Facebook in 2013, React.js has rapidly become a widely adopted JS library and one of the most starred projects on GitHub. In his new book, React Quickly, Azat Mardan has, in his typical lucid style, laid out everything you need to learn about the React ecosystem in order to build performant SPA applications quickly. Just the chapters on React state and Universal JavaScript are worth the price of the book.”
    —Prakash Sarma, New Star Online

    “React Quickly will ease your adoption of React by giving you a clear foundation, and it will have you building applications that thoroughly embrace the benefits of using React.
    —Allan Von Schenkel, VP of Technology & Strategy at FoundHuman

    “React Quickly covers all the important aspects of React in an easy-to-consume fashion. This book is like all of Azat’s work: clear and concise, and it covers what’s needed to become productive quickly. If you are interested in adding React to your skill set, I say start here.”
    —Bruno Watt, consulting architect at hypermedia.tech

    “React Quickly is an incredibly comprehensive book on full-stack web development with React.js, covering not just React itself but the ecosystem surrounding it. I’ve always been mystified by server-side React and found that Azat’s book really helped me finally understand it. If you’re new to React and would like to truly master it, I would look no further than this book.”
    —Richard Kho, software engineer at Capital One

    Lastly, you cannot see a book in a bookshop because the book is not published yet. The book is in MEAP and went to print only this Monday (three days ago).

    Reply to another post which explains about MEAP:

    1. You must be not aware how MEAP works.
    Let me explain you.
    MEAP which is Manning Early Access Program does not do any editing for its digital copies.
    I don't do any editing either when we send new versions to MEAP.
    Why do you expect a perfect prose from MEAP?

    The final book which went to print 3 days ago will have everything edited multiple times (copy editing, author review, tech editing, tech review, another copy editing, proof editing).

    2. What is the obscure alternative to Redux? You must be not up-to-date with the latest MEAP. Please download the latest MEAP which has Redux or wait for the final version which will be released in a few days.

    The bottom line is that you need to be aware of what you are buying. MEAP is not for everyone. MEAP is for people who can tolerate typos but need current versions and latest tech, for people who want to contribute to the book by providing their feedback.

    From you comments, you either didn't know about MEAP or prefer perfectly edited and grammatically sound prose... well, I wrote 14 books which were translated in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Russian and other languages. In addition to that, I read 200 non-fiction books myself in the last 3 years. And let me tell you, technical books are not supposed to be perfectly edited or grammatically sound.

    In tech, you need to move fast. That's why Manning has this great MEAP. If you want to read a perfect English, read Charles Dickens... because I'm sure even JavaScript The Good Part (which has been around 10+ years) will have a few typos.

    If you still want to learn React or enjoy the edited and beautifully typeset final version, then wait a few days for an email from Manning and get the final ecopy or order the print book!
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #21
    Sironfoot wrote:
    468060 wrote:Before I decide to buy a MEAP book I look at the writing style shown in the free chapters. In the case of this book, there are a lot of grammatical and punctuation mistakes and the writing is, frankly, sloppy.

    Why don't you at least clean up the one chapter which any potential buyer can look at? There are no on-line reviews, and we can't see the book in a bookshop. All that we have to go on is his sample chapter.


    While the writing is sloppy it's because English isn't the author's first language, and I'm sure it'll get cleaned up in the final version. However, don't let that put you off, the material is easy enough to understand and concepts are conveyed well. I'm enjoying the MEAP version so far.


    Make sure to get the final ecopy and pbook as well! They'll be released very soon. The manuscript went to print 3 days ago. The book is really beautiful. You won't recognize it when you see it. Manning team did a great job of designing and typesetting the final version (print and ecopy).
    468060 (64) [Avatar] Offline
    #22
    >>You must be not aware how MEAP works.
    I am aware: I have bought a number of MEAP books.

    >>Why do you expect a perfect prose from MEAP?
    I don't expect perfect prose. However, I do at least expect that the author cares enough to correct basic mistakes. Some of the MEAPs at Manning are good; others are dreadful. I have no way to judge the quality of a book other than by reading the free chapters. If they look as though they were put together on the back of a bus then I'm obviously cautious about the rest of the book.

    >>The final book which went to print 3 days ago will have everything edited multiple times (copy editing, author review, tech editing, tech review, another copy editing, proof editing).

    Why is the book edited *after* it's gone to print?

    >>What is the obscure alternative to Redux?

    I haven't got the time to sift through every single comment to find whatever obscure Flux alternative you originally chose. If you've changed your mind and decided to write about Redux instead that's good.

    >>You must be not up-to-date with the latest MEAP.

    All I have is the free download of chapter one, as I mentioned in my first post.

    >>The bottom line is that you need to be aware of what you are buying. MEAP is not for everyone. MEAP is for people who can tolerate typos but need current versions and latest tech, for people who want to contribute to the book by providing their feedback.

    I have contributed to a number of MEAPs, largely without thanks. I know exactly the range of problems to expect. I don't mind genuine typos. But I don't like books which were put together in a hurry and which are full of mistakes.

    >>From you comments, you either didn't know about MEAP or prefer perfectly edited and grammatically sound prose

    'From *you* comments' It's painful to read your mangled writing. I like books written by serious authors who care about the quality of their work. It's abundantly obvious that you don't.

    No serious book has grammatical or spelling mistakes - whatever the topic. This is a strong sign that the book has been rushed or that the author can't think clearly.

    >>well, I wrote 14 books which were translated in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Russian and other languages.

    Unfortunately, quantity and quality aren't always the same.

    >>And let me tell you, technical books are not supposed to be perfectly edited or grammatically sound.

    On the contrary, it's especially important for technical books to be written clearly and without mistakes.
    Why would I trust code or a technical explanation written by somebody who can't think clearly enough to write without making mistakes?

    >>In tech, you need to move fast.

    You are hardly moving fast. It's taken you two years to write this.

    >>JavaScript The Good Part (which has been around 10+ years) will have a few typos.

    Douglas Crockford is a serious author. His book, which is of lasting value, was not bunged together as quickly as possible. You actually seem to be proud of how quickly and sloppily you can write your books.

    By the way, it's called 'JavaScript: The Good Parts, not 'JavaScript: The Good Part'.

    You feel that a book full of mistakes is acceptable. Unbelievably, you got angry with me for saying that, as a potential buyer, I prefer to buy books which aren't riddled with mistakes.


    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #23
    468060 wrote:>>You must be not aware how MEAP works.
    I am aware: I have bought a number of MEAP books.

    >>Why do you expect a perfect prose from MEAP?
    I don't expect perfect prose. However, I do at least expect that the author cares enough to correct basic mistakes. Some of the MEAPs at Manning are good; others are dreadful. I have no way to judge the quality of a book other than by reading the free chapters. If they look as though they were put together on the back of a bus then I'm obviously cautious about the rest of the book.

    >>The final book which went to print 3 days ago will have everything edited multiple times (copy editing, author review, tech editing, tech review, another copy editing, proof editing).

    Why is the book edited *after* it's gone to print?

    >>What is the obscure alternative to Redux?

    I haven't got the time to sift through every single comment to find whatever obscure Flux alternative you originally chose. If you've changed your mind and decided to write about Redux instead that's good.

    >>You must be not up-to-date with the latest MEAP.

    All I have is the free download of chapter one, as I mentioned in my first post.

    >>The bottom line is that you need to be aware of what you are buying. MEAP is not for everyone. MEAP is for people who can tolerate typos but need current versions and latest tech, for people who want to contribute to the book by providing their feedback.

    I have contributed to a number of MEAPs, largely without thanks. I know exactly the range of problems to expect. I don't mind genuine typos. But I don't like books which were put together in a hurry and which are full of mistakes.

    >>From you comments, you either didn't know about MEAP or prefer perfectly edited and grammatically sound prose

    'From *you* comments' It's painful to read your mangled writing. I like books written by serious authors who care about the quality of their work. It's abundantly obvious that you don't.

    No serious book has grammatical or spelling mistakes - whatever the topic. This is a strong sign that the book has been rushed or that the author can't think clearly.

    >>well, I wrote 14 books which were translated in Chinese, Korean, Polish, Russian and other languages.

    Unfortunately, quantity and quality aren't always the same.

    >>And let me tell you, technical books are not supposed to be perfectly edited or grammatically sound.

    On the contrary, it's especially important for technical books to be written clearly and without mistakes.
    Why would I trust code or a technical explanation written by somebody who can't think clearly enough to write without making mistakes?

    >>In tech, you need to move fast.

    You are hardly moving fast. It's taken you two years to write this.

    >>JavaScript The Good Part (which has been around 10+ years) will have a few typos.

    Douglas Crockford is a serious author. His book, which is of lasting value, was not bunged together as quickly as possible. You actually seem to be proud of how quickly and sloppily you can write your books.

    By the way, it's called 'JavaScript: The Good Parts, not 'JavaScript: The Good Part'.

    You feel that a book full of mistakes is acceptable. Unbelievably, you got angry with me for saying that, as a potential buyer, I prefer to buy books which aren't riddled with mistakes.






    Your comments don't make sense.

    Me: "In tech, you need to move fast."

    You: "You are hardly moving fast. It's taken you two years to write this."

    Yes, it took two years for the final print version but MEAP was available in a few months and it was updates often according to the peer review and this forum. I replaced Reflux with Redux, added React Router and Wedpack and re-wrote everything in ES6. Tech moves fast and I moved fast with MEAP and now we have a great final print book too.

    You seem very sad and not care enough to even download the latest MEAP... why you care to leave comments here? smilie Instead, just download the latest MEAP and see how good it is!

    Just FYI, My books are in tops on Node and JavaScript which tells most people do NOT worry about perfect flow or grammar as you do.

    But don't worry. We covered you too. The final book is ready in digital and print.

    If you like final versions, then depending on your purchase (did it include pbook with MEAP?) you might get it or you might need to buy the pbook separately.
    It's really nothing like the early version of MEAP which by the way was popular too.
    Get the final print book and you'll like it 10 or even 100 times better.
    ptmoy (18) [Avatar] Offline
    #24
    I started this thread, and is still wondering when we're going to get the final version. If Manning is going to take this long to publish, maybe the author should consider pushing out another draft prior to final publication.

    I'm not sure why people complain about grammar and punctuation mistakes in an MEAP book; it's the nature of MEAP. In terms of minor mistakes, this book is no better or worse than several other MEAP books I've read. Overall, I think this book is well written; topic selection is good and book's well organized. Sure, there are some mistakes in the text. But most of the time, I can ascertain what the author is trying to convey. I'm getting a lot out of reading the drafts. Just wish there's another update, or the final version was out.
    468060 (64) [Avatar] Offline
    #25
    >>I started this thread, and is still wondering when we're going to get the final version. If Manning is going to take this long to publish, maybe the author should consider pushing out another draft prior to final publication.

    The author said that the book has gone to print. If that's the case, then the final version should already be online. But it's not, as you point out.

    >>I'm not sure why people complain about grammar and punctuation mistakes in an MEAP book; it's the nature of MEAP.

    Careless writing suggests a careless mind. If somebody can't think clearly when he writes and doesn't read through his text before presenting it, it's hard to believe that the code won't be equally chaotic. Moreover, the syntax of a sentence works much like the syntax of a programming language: a person who struggles to understand one may well struggle to understand the other.

    There's very little to go on with these MEAPs: the quality varies enormously, and one can't really rely on the proof-readers and editors to clear them up, because they don't do a very good job. If all one has is a badly written introduction then it's hard to have confidence that the rest will be any good.

    >>But most of the time, I can ascertain what the author is trying to convey.

    That's good to hear.
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #26
    ptmoy wrote:I started this thread, and is still wondering when we're going to get the final version. If Manning is going to take this long to publish, maybe the author should consider pushing out another draft prior to final publication.

    I'm not sure why people complain about grammar and punctuation mistakes in an MEAP book; it's the nature of MEAP. In terms of minor mistakes, this book is no better or worse than several other MEAP books I've read. Overall, I think this book is well written; topic selection is good and book's well organized. Sure, there are some mistakes in the text. But most of the time, I can ascertain what the author is trying to convey. I'm getting a lot out of reading the drafts. Just wish there's another update, or the final version was out.


    As of Aug 15, 2017: The book went to print last Monday which was August 7, 2017.
    At least that's what I was told by my Manning team of editors.
    My understanding was that the final digital book will be release immediately, or in a few days because the final PDF is ready. It went to print, right?
    Okay. Maybe they have vacation or just busy.
    I don't know. smilie Sorry.
    I messaged my contact at Manning to clarify and post on forum.
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #27
    468060 wrote:>>I started this thread, and is still wondering when we're going to get the final version. If Manning is going to take this long to publish, maybe the author should consider pushing out another draft prior to final publication.

    The author said that the book has gone to print. If that's the case, then the final version should already be online. But it's not, as you point out.

    >>I'm not sure why people complain about grammar and punctuation mistakes in an MEAP book; it's the nature of MEAP.

    Careless writing suggests a careless mind. If somebody can't think clearly when he writes and doesn't read through his text before presenting it, it's hard to believe that the code won't be equally chaotic. Moreover, the syntax of a sentence works much like the syntax of a programming language: a person who struggles to understand one may well struggle to understand the other.

    There's very little to go on with these MEAPs: the quality varies enormously, and one can't really rely on the proof-readers and editors to clear them up, because they don't do a very good job. If all one has is a badly written introduction then it's hard to have confidence that the rest will be any good.

    >>But most of the time, I can ascertain what the author is trying to convey.

    That's good to hear.


    "Careless writing suggests a careless mind. " - Not true.
    Writing and editing are two different processes which are performed by different parts of the brain.
    First pass of the writing is like a mental throw up. It take 3-5 edits to get to a more or less digestible text.

    Anyone who did any serious writing will attest that the best way to write is to start ugly and make it better later.

    "Write drunk, edit sober.” said Hemingway and no one can complain that his writing was careless.
    Stephen King wrote: “To write is human, to edit is divine.”
    That's what we did with React Quickly.

    The whole idea of MEAP is brilliant because it allows to test structure and topics quickly without investing a lot of time in laborious and time-consuming printing.

    BUT THE BEST BENEFIT IS FOR THE READERS: readers can influence direction of the book (which they did with React Quickly), and get the latest updates quickly for the price of one book (MEAP started as one book but now it's 500pages - length of 2 books). At one point, I even jokingly wrote to my editor: let's keep it MEAP, this way when React 57 comes out, I'll be able to update it. There are no updates with a final or print books.

    MEAP is the lean startup methodology in action.

    With MEAP for this book, we were able to detect bad parts and make book much, much better.
    Manning is smart in doing MEAP. Apress (my other publisher) doesn't have anything like MEAP. smilie

    Luckily, I convinced Apress to allow me to write my new book Practical Node, 2nd Edition in the open on GitHub. It'll be even better than MEAP due to more transparency and the ability for readers to edit the manuscript.
    Kyle J. (7) [Avatar] Offline
    #28
    Hi folks, I'm the Production Support Manager here at Manning.

    First, the final version is coming very soon. When we send a book to the printer we also begin work on the electronic files, generating the ePub and mobi formats and making sure they're valid, well-formed files that comply with the formats' standards. All of this is in progress now, and the final electronic versions will be available in a few days. We appreciate your patience!

    When a book is in MEAP, all chapters, including free chapters, are raw and unedited. Offering a copy edited, polished free chapter of a book in MEAP would be a misleading representation of what a purchaser could expect while the book is in MEAP. We want our customers to know what they're buying! We hope readers can look past typos, grammar mistakes, and other errors while a book is in MEAP with the understanding that these things will be addressed in the final version. However, if you're dissatisfied with a MEAP purchase we're happy to offer a refund or exchange. (https://www.manning.com/meap-program#section-meap-faqs)

    We think our copy editors and proof readers do a pretty awesome job. We do everything we can to ensure any corrections remain technically accurate. If for example, we're altering sentence structure to correct a grammatical error, we obviously don't want to change the meaning of that sentence by mistake. We don't expect our Production staff to understand all the subtleties of all the technologies our authors write about. So, in addition to working closely with the author, we also bring in additional technical or subject-matter expertise when needed.

    I hope I've offered some clarity and addressed some concerns! We enjoy lively discussions on our forums. As a reminder, please keep your posts respectful and considerate.
    54408 (4) [Avatar] Offline
    #29
    Keep up the good work. You guys at Manning are great. I love the whole MEAP concept. I suspect a lot of the negative comments here are coming from frustrated MEAP buyers who can't wait to get a hold of the final product, I am in that camp my self. Azat Mardan has produced great stuff in the past, and the disappointment from not seeing an email from Manning saying the book has shipped is sometimes maddening. smilie
    echeadle (85) [Avatar] Offline
    #30
    I did not see the MEAP, but I am enjoying the final version. I don't know what people have gone through, since I did not get in on the MEAP, but this is a well done book with lots of examples, references and a thoughtful approach to teaching.

    What I do know about Manning, since I have been buying MEAPS for quite sometime and currently own 15, is that Manning has treated me well when projects have stalled. Even the books that don't make it to print, have very useful information. I don't know why a project fails, but I have never been left holding the bag, in the sense I either get my money back, or another MEAP. I take advantage and always get another MEAP. So I have a partial book that has good info, and another MEAP.

    The writing process is not easy to do it well, and I see MEAPS that start out pretty rough, but over time get much better. Stephen King wrote "To write is human, to edit is divine." When I write articles or papers, I sit down and write until all the thoughts are down on paper. I then go back and edit. I always seem to find the second sentence or paragraph seems to be the best lead in for the article or paper I am writing. My first draft is almost never readable, So I am forgiving of the early drafts and look forward to the next.

    The level of quality of Manning Publications, I have purchased seems to be darn good when compared to other books, so I will continue to buy MEAPS.
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #31
    echeadle wrote:I did not see the MEAP, but I am enjoying the final version. I don't know what people have gone through, since I did not get in on the MEAP, but this is a well done book with lots of examples, references and a thoughtful approach to teaching.

    What I do know about Manning, since I have been buying MEAPS for quite sometime and currently own 15, is that Manning has treated me well when projects have stalled. Even the books that don't make it to print, have very useful information. I don't know why a project fails, but I have never been left holding the bag, in the sense I either get my money back, or another MEAP. I take advantage and always get another MEAP. So I have a partial book that has good info, and another MEAP.

    The writing process is not easy to do it well, and I see MEAPS that start out pretty rough, but over time get much better. Stephen King wrote "To write is human, to edit is divine." When I write articles or papers, I sit down and write until all the thoughts are down on paper. I then go back and edit. I always seem to find the second sentence or paragraph seems to be the best lead in for the article or paper I am writing. My first draft is almost never readable, So I am forgiving of the early drafts and look forward to the next.

    The level of quality of Manning Publications, I have purchased seems to be darn good when compared to other books, so I will continue to buy MEAPS.


    Thank you for sharing you experience with this book and MEAP.

    I agreed. As an author and reader, I can tell that MEAP is a great thing which allows Manning to publish better books than most other publishers and self-published authors.
    I didn't know it's possible to exchange MEAP for another MEAP. That's nice!
    Azat Mardan (41) [Avatar] Offline
    #32
    54408 wrote:Keep up the good work. You guys at Manning are great. I love the whole MEAP concept. I suspect a lot of the negative comments here are coming from frustrated MEAP buyers who can't wait to get a hold of the final product, I am in that camp my self. Azat Mardan has produced great stuff in the past, and the disappointment from not seeing an email from Manning saying the book has shipped is sometimes maddening. smilie


    Thank you! The final book is ready and available now. I know that lack of communication can be disappointing.