263453 (1) [Avatar] Offline
#1
The latest version of the MEAP (version eight) has a listing of 9 chapters. Has the initial listing of 14 chapters been shelved?

Thanks.
Bill Kennedy (68) [Avatar] Offline
#2
Due to time constraints and the existence of the Go In Practice book, the GIA book is now 9 chapters long. The 9th chapter will be Testing and Debugging and is being written now. I am sorry for the inconvenience and change to the table of contents.
-- Bill
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#3
Point of feedback (more so for Manning than for the authors): any time anything like this ever happens, the readers should be properly informed*. I certainly didnt catch this. Thanks to the OP for pointing this out!

*The latest MEAP update email only said:

What's new?
Chapters 1-8 have been revised.

The authors have made extensive changes to chapters 1-8, in particular to chapter 5, which is now called "Go's Type System." Please be sure to stop by the Author Online forum to let us know if you like the changes that have been made to the manuscript. As always, we appreciate your feedback!

What's next?
Chapter 9, "Writing Network Applications in Go"
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#4
Btw, is this a decision that has been made already and wont be gone back on? Is the reason the time... the other book... or both?
Bill Kennedy (68) [Avatar] Offline
#5
Chapter 9 will be called Testing and Debugging.

A few things went into the decision and the decision final. The goal is to have chapter 9 complete within the next few weeks, then final reviews and edits done ASAP. I apologize if this has upset you in any way. If you would like to discuss this further, please send me an email. I can also put you in touch with the editor if you wish to talk with them directly.
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#6
Ok, Bill. I will email you from another email (this is the one I use to talk to Manning).
342405 (2) [Avatar] Offline
#7
I'm suprised by this decision as well since I was especially interested in some of the more in-depth topics like Reflection, Performance and the Devops stuff. It feels like Manning wanted to sweep the cut of the more in-depth / advanced topics under the rug which makes the book way less appealing for more seasoned devs.
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#8
342405 wrote:I'm suprised by this decision as well since I was especially interested in some of the more in-depth themes like Reflection, Performance and the Devops stuff. It feels like Manning wanted to sweep the cut of the more in-depth / advanced topics under the rug which makes the book way less appealing for more seasoned devs.


indeed. Ditto...
Bill Kennedy (68) [Avatar] Offline
#9
Please understand this was not Manning's decision or fault. This was a decision made by the authors. If you want to be upset with anyone, you can be upset with me. Manning has been incredible to work with. If anyone is interested in writing a book, Manning is a great choice.
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#10
Bill Kennedy wrote:Please understand this was not Manning's decision or fault. This was a decision made by the authors. If you want to be upset with anyone, you can be upset with me. Manning has been incredible to work with. If anyone is interested in writing a book, Manning is a great choice.


I know I appreciate your work and effort on the book, Bill, so no worries there. I think we all just wished that this change could have been better communicated to us; and Manning come clean with alternatives if we so decide because of the change that the book is not for us. I'm in the same camp as 342405; I'm looking for the more advanced stuff.
342405 (2) [Avatar] Offline
#11
Bill Kennedy wrote:Please understand this was not Manning's decision or fault. This was a decision made by the authors. If you want to be upset with anyone, you can be upset with me. Manning has been incredible to work with. If anyone is interested in writing a book, Manning is a great choice.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your effort and work writing this book. But as jfs.world wrote how this decision was communicated or better the lack thereof is what leaves a bad impression since through the cut the target audience also changes quite a bit for this book.
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#12
This is how support@manning.com dealt with me when I raised this issue, fyi.

First I get what seems to be a reply that shrugs off the issue:

I am sorry that you are not pleased by this decision. I will pass this along to management.


hmmm... You know, I actually did ask you what I should do? now that the very content for which I wanted the book is now gone, and you're saying what, you will "pass this along to management"? What does that even mean? Ok. Maaybe that means I'll see some sort of action and get some sort of reply? I hope?

I wait two days (more than 48 hours) with no further replies before clarifying what support means by "pass this along to management". Support then comes back with the following reply:

I passed your feedback along. If you are not happy with the state of this amended meap I can exchange this out for an alternate title if you like.


Wait. So you're only now just offering any sort of redress? Not during your initial reply? Gee thanks!

Oh and of course, I'll accept a swop-no-refund! (even though https://account.manning.com/support/index: "You can cancel a MEAP subscription for a refund or a one-time exchange anytime before the final chapter has been released."). But that option of a refund has not been allowed for me! Oh dear, I'll have to go hunt for a title that I can accept now in exchange for this. But I already know (I've seen the other books) that the content I really want is missing from Manning. I really don't know what to do.

I wait a few days, peck around a bit on Manning, see what titles they have, investigate some books... go hunt for and see what reviews are out there.... Do I really have to do this? I feel like I'm doing Manning a favour here, taking time out from my life to do this for them (time that I'm very, very aware I can never get back; there are so many other things I'd rather be doing).

So I finally settle on a book which, while on a totally, totally different topic (and which I wouldn't have otherwise bought, btw) I can accept. And I reply to support to let them know of my choice.

This was 7 days ago. I have neither heard since from support.... nor seen any action (I know; I've checked my account!) taken on account of my reply. I must assure you, on top of what's happened with this book, it feels good how I've been treated.
reri (27) [Avatar] Offline
#13
Chapter Listing in MEAP v8-customer support has been notified
Dear jfs. works,

We apologize for how this was handled. We contacted support and you will be contacted soon to get this matter resolved to your satisfaction.

It is our policy to honor exchange or refund requests on MEAPs any time up until the last chapter is released.

Also, moving forward, we will do a better job letting customers know when major revisions have been made to the Table of Contents of our books.

Thank you for bringing these issues to our attention.

Again, our apologies

Rebecca Rinehart
Manning Publications
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#14
Chapter Listing in MEAP v8-customer support has been notified
reri wrote:Dear jfs. works,


Rebecca, I don't really care so much about identifying with this nick, but... for the sake of accuracy, you should get it right. I'll be more inclined to believe you're really putting in effort here.

We apologize for how this was handled. We contacted support and you will be contacted soon to get this matter resolved to your satisfaction.


Really? I'm going to remain skeptical about how genuinely apologetic you guys really are. I know how hard it is to say sorry.

And fyi, please continue all correspondence regarding questions specific to me privately, so we don't end up taking over this thread, relevant as our discussion may be. Except my question below. That, you should reply publicly to.

It is our policy to honor exchange or refund requests on MEAPs any time up until the last chapter is released.


Perhaps you could clear this up for all of us while we're on this topic. What do you mean when you say "until the last chapter is released"? Would that include the first draft of this last chapter? So as long as it is out, all bets are off, even if the chapter is not finalized? We're just coming to the last chapter now, so I'm sure a lot of folks will probably want to know.

Also, moving forward, we will do a better job letting customers know when major revisions have been made to the Table of Contents of our books.


Thank you and please do. It is your business, to do so.

Thank you for bringing these issues to our attention.

Again, our apologies

Rebecca Rinehart
Manning Publications
jfs.world (107) [Avatar] Online
#15
Just to give an update here: support has resolved the matter to my satisfaction, so I'm happy now. I'm also glad that (as per Rebecca's post) from now on, Manning will do better about letting their customers know when major changes happen to the TOC for their books; so everybody's a winner here. Thanks, all.
Greeny (4) [Avatar] Offline
#16
The latest email I received says "some" chapters have been omitted from the book.
When i downloaded the lates MEAP, i found 5 out of 14 chapters have gone!!!

Am i right in thinking that chapters that we have effectively paid for will now not appear in in "Go in Action"
but will be in "Go in Practice" which will have to be paid for again?

That's not what was advertised when i paid for the book.
I realise things change, and some things are unavoidable, but how you communicate and handle those changes is directly under your control.
This has not been done well.

I thought the early access program was cool and a win/win for author & reader.
Now I'm not so sure.

330150 (1) [Avatar] Offline
#17
Really? Are you serious about this? Wow! smilie This is not good business. Really. You lost me. Sorry.
Bill Kennedy (68) [Avatar] Offline
#18
I appreciate that you are angry and you all have every right to be. I made the decision to drop those 5 chapters from the book, not Manning. It takes 2+ months to write a chapter with edits. This means to include those remaining 5 chapters would require another 10+ months. I have been working on the book for almost 2 years now. Several chapters needed to be written twice as I learned more about the language. After two years I am honestly burnt out. Chapter 9 (Testing and Benchmarking) will be the last chapter.

It has been amazing working with Manning. They have supported me every step of the way and I could not have lasted as long as I did without them. If you are angry, please direct that anger towards me, not Manning. They are only doing what I asked them to do. Even though it was not in their best interest and they knew the backlash that would come from it. If you want to talk to me personally about this my email is bill@ardanstudios.com

-- Bill Kennedy
pires (4) [Avatar] Offline
#19
So to be sure, Ch9 is no longer gonna be about Writing network apps but rather Testing?

I can wait another couple months for having one more chapter but not having it is sad as I was really interested in its subject.

TBH it all seems like a "let's write more Go books, Go Not In Action, Go In Practice, Go In Enterprise, etc.", especially if no one reads what the authors have to say. I'm glad I actually paid more attention to the forum, now. But I guess this is what MEAP is all about and if we can cancel it, it's OK then.

One last suggestion, please rename the book to "Learning Go" or "Introduction to Go".

To the authors, thank you for your effort. I'm keeping my book in the shelf smilie
262292 (2) [Avatar] Offline
#20
Bill Kennedy wrote:Chapter 9 will be called Testing and Debugging.

A few things went into the decision and the decision final. The goal is to have chapter 9 complete within the next few weeks, then final reviews and edits done ASAP. I apologize if this has upset you in any way. If you would like to discuss this further, please send me an email. I can also put you in touch with the editor if you wish to talk with them directly.


any books about Writing Network Applications in Go Chapter.

buy the book is for Chapter Writing Network Applications in Go,and now ,is's not .
why????????
cgthomsen (2) [Avatar] Offline
#21
I realize that I'm a bit late, but I had ignored the previous updates about the book, so I didn't realize what had happened until the update I just got.

I certainly appreciate that working on something for so long is tough, but when you charge people for something, you should deliver, even if that something is a promise of future content. I bought the book exclusively to get those last few chapters—I've worked casually with Go for a couple of years, I do not need to be told slices work or how to spawn a goroutine—so this is very disappointing. You can keep my money, but only because I admire the work you're doing for the Go community in general.